Comments for Man Bytes Blog http://blog.pjsattic.com/corvus Where Story, Play & Community Meet Thu, 15 May 2008 02:07:51 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 Comment on Some GTA IV Questions by Twenty Sided » Blog Archive » GTA IV:First Impressions http://blog.pjsattic.com/corvus/2008/05/some-gta-iv-questions/#comment-80420 Twenty Sided » Blog Archive » GTA IV:First Impressions Wed, 14 May 2008 20:30:42 +0000 http://blog.pjsattic.com/corvus/?p=1685#comment-80420 [...] I do know that I would not expect to still be poor after the job was over. Perhaps the game is social commentary on the plight of underpaid illegal [...] [...] I do know that I would not expect to still be poor after the job was over. Perhaps the game is social commentary on the plight of underpaid illegal [...]

]]> Comment on Some GTA IV Questions by caller#6 http://blog.pjsattic.com/corvus/2008/05/some-gta-iv-questions/#comment-80406 caller#6 Fri, 09 May 2008 18:38:54 +0000 http://blog.pjsattic.com/corvus/?p=1685#comment-80406 Part of me, having read through this discussion, is wondering if <em>transgressional</em>* video games would work. Would the desired effect be possible? Would the desired effect be, um, desirable? Would it be best in a more structured game? Or could it work in a sandbox environment? But then I'm one of those people who quit playing Wolfenstein 3D when I found out I'd have to shoot the dogs. Part of me, having read through this discussion, is wondering if transgressional* video games would work. Would the desired effect be possible? Would the desired effect be, um, desirable? Would it be best in a more structured game? Or could it work in a sandbox environment?

But then I’m one of those people who quit playing Wolfenstein 3D when I found out I’d have to shoot the dogs.

]]> Comment on The Complexity of Simple Game Narratives by Michael http://blog.pjsattic.com/corvus/2008/05/the-complexity-of-simple-game-narratives/#comment-80404 Michael Fri, 09 May 2008 17:48:24 +0000 http://blog.pjsattic.com/corvus/?p=1687#comment-80404 I look forward to you applying some expertise to these "narrative layers" you mention. I've never taken the time to properly explore how this complex system operates in games, and I agree that the multiple points of view at work in games presents a whole different set of challenges than more traditional forms of writing. I anxiously await the application of MBB brainpower to this one! :-) I look forward to you applying some expertise to these “narrative layers” you mention. I’ve never taken the time to properly explore how this complex system operates in games, and I agree that the multiple points of view at work in games presents a whole different set of challenges than more traditional forms of writing.

I anxiously await the application of MBB brainpower to this one! :-)

]]> Comment on The Complexity of Simple Game Narratives by Kimari http://blog.pjsattic.com/corvus/2008/05/the-complexity-of-simple-game-narratives/#comment-80402 Kimari Thu, 08 May 2008 17:55:40 +0000 http://blog.pjsattic.com/corvus/?p=1687#comment-80402 ooops, bad semantics are bad ooops, bad semantics are bad

]]> Comment on The Complexity of Simple Game Narratives by Kimari http://blog.pjsattic.com/corvus/2008/05/the-complexity-of-simple-game-narratives/#comment-80401 Kimari Thu, 08 May 2008 17:54:44 +0000 http://blog.pjsattic.com/corvus/?p=1687#comment-80401 I start smiling every time I think about the player's involvement, since there's so much innovation there waiting to happen. Player behavior, choices taken, main story, GUI, camera view, all this elements have never been thought of as a whole. I mean, there's always some abstraction somewhere, there's no justification for the green rectangle above a characters health that represents his health. I'm currently designing a platforming game with some interesting concepts about the fourth wall, and the involvement of the player, but I digress. I start smiling every time I think about the player’s involvement, since there’s so much innovation there waiting to happen.
Player behavior, choices taken, main story, GUI, camera view, all this elements have never been thought of as a whole. I mean, there’s always some abstraction somewhere, there’s no justification for the green rectangle above a characters health that represents his health.
I’m currently designing a platforming game with some interesting concepts about the fourth wall, and the involvement of the player, but I digress.

]]> Comment on Some GTA IV Questions by Corvus http://blog.pjsattic.com/corvus/2008/05/some-gta-iv-questions/#comment-80399 Corvus Thu, 08 May 2008 16:22:15 +0000 http://blog.pjsattic.com/corvus/?p=1685#comment-80399 @weefz Well, I can at least minimize my direct involvement with it, eh? @weefz Well, I can at least minimize my direct involvement with it, eh?

]]> Comment on Some GTA IV Questions by Weefz http://blog.pjsattic.com/corvus/2008/05/some-gta-iv-questions/#comment-80398 Weefz Thu, 08 May 2008 15:51:20 +0000 http://blog.pjsattic.com/corvus/?p=1685#comment-80398 Corvus: Good luck to you if you ever decide to avoid misogynistic media. It's incredibly difficult. People out there who try to defend GTA as social commentary on prostitutes... is that anything more than a kneejerk defense? Yes, the prostitutes are a background scenery to the commentary as described by The Fuzzy Bastard but the games have never been ABOUT prostitution in any way, shape or form. IIRC, the prostitutes have always been background scenery, along with pedestrians, homeless people and your fellow drivers who exist only to have their cars stolen. Even the much-deplored mechanic of running over prostitutes to get your money back was a result of emergent gameplay in a world where running over 90% of the population gave you some money. I'll admit that I'm a little uncomfortable to see that, so far, hardly anyone drops money in GTA4 except for prostitutes and drug dealers. RockStar have been repeating the same theme of Individual Against [satirically conservative fantasy] USA ever since GTA3. GTA4 is (so far) no different. They may swap the main protagonist's skin colour and accent but as yet, I haven't seen ethnicity make any difference to the basic turf wars story (disclaimer: I never played SanAn). The strip clubs? Even though Roman will invite you, you can say no. You can play pool instead. Or get drunk. Or go bowling. OTOH I believe there's a later mission which forces you into the strip clubs and there's the usual Male Gaze and 90% of characters are male. But that's in Mass Effect and pretty much every other game ever, so Meh... You're right that there is no way to progress the plot without criminal violence. As with all GTA games including Bully, it's set in a world where the authorities are NOT on your side and you have well-armed enemies. Either you fight back or you die. At the same time, it does offer at least one opportunity for "redemption" within the first few missions. *minor spoiler alert* You're ordered to kill someone who has angered your boss but when it comes down to it, you can choose to let him get away. I haven't seen the outcome of that choice yet, but it's more than was available in the previous GTA games. *end of spoiler* I have hope. Corvus: Good luck to you if you ever decide to avoid misogynistic media. It’s incredibly difficult.

People out there who try to defend GTA as social commentary on prostitutes… is that anything more than a kneejerk defense? Yes, the prostitutes are a background scenery to the commentary as described by The Fuzzy Bastard but the games have never been ABOUT prostitution in any way, shape or form. IIRC, the prostitutes have always been background scenery, along with pedestrians, homeless people and your fellow drivers who exist only to have their cars stolen. Even the much-deplored mechanic of running over prostitutes to get your money back was a result of emergent gameplay in a world where running over 90% of the population gave you some money. I’ll admit that I’m a little uncomfortable to see that, so far, hardly anyone drops money in GTA4 except for prostitutes and drug dealers.

RockStar have been repeating the same theme of Individual Against [satirically conservative fantasy] USA ever since GTA3. GTA4 is (so far) no different. They may swap the main protagonist’s skin colour and accent but as yet, I haven’t seen ethnicity make any difference to the basic turf wars story (disclaimer: I never played SanAn).

The strip clubs? Even though Roman will invite you, you can say no. You can play pool instead. Or get drunk. Or go bowling. OTOH I believe there’s a later mission which forces you into the strip clubs and there’s the usual Male Gaze and 90% of characters are male. But that’s in Mass Effect and pretty much every other game ever, so Meh…

You’re right that there is no way to progress the plot without criminal violence. As with all GTA games including Bully, it’s set in a world where the authorities are NOT on your side and you have well-armed enemies. Either you fight back or you die. At the same time, it does offer at least one opportunity for “redemption” within the first few missions.

*minor spoiler alert*
You’re ordered to kill someone who has angered your boss but when it comes down to it, you can choose to let him get away. I haven’t seen the outcome of that choice yet, but it’s more than was available in the previous GTA games.
*end of spoiler*

I have hope.

]]> Comment on Some GTA IV Questions by Corvus http://blog.pjsattic.com/corvus/2008/05/some-gta-iv-questions/#comment-80391 Corvus Wed, 07 May 2008 10:06:18 +0000 http://blog.pjsattic.com/corvus/?p=1685#comment-80391 In other words, if I'm not willing to keep an "open mind" about misogynistic media I should just avoid it. In other words, if I’m not willing to keep an “open mind” about misogynistic media I should just avoid it.

]]> Comment on Some GTA IV Questions by josh bycer http://blog.pjsattic.com/corvus/2008/05/some-gta-iv-questions/#comment-80390 josh bycer Wed, 07 May 2008 04:08:02 +0000 http://blog.pjsattic.com/corvus/?p=1685#comment-80390 I'm about 6 hours in and I can't fully comment yet on the story, but I can already see that this isn't the game you want to play with your girlfriend or wife in the room unless they can keep an open mind. I can't decide if some of the dialogue is either meant to be very satirical or just plain juvenile. The strongest element of GTA4 so far is the city itself which is just amazing to drive around . I’m about 6 hours in and I can’t fully comment yet on the story, but I can already see that this isn’t the game you want to play with your girlfriend or wife in the room unless they can keep an open mind. I can’t decide if some of the dialogue is either meant to be very satirical or just plain juvenile. The strongest element of GTA4 so far is the city itself which is just amazing to drive around .

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